Curse

tmr819 · Sep 11, 2008, 09:34 PM // 21:34

As I asked earlier in this thread, if the ability to use 7 heroes was an option obtainable via purchase, what would be the effect?

My best guess is that the only people who would be willing to pay for this option would be solo-oriented players who are not PUGing anyway or else who felt that working with 7 heroes would just be really fun and worth the added expense. I also suspect that the only players willing to shell out additional bucks for such a feature would be players who are primarily to exclusively solo players.

Rather than hand this out for free and let 7 heroes "kill the game", I think ANet should offer it for sale and let those that want it pay for it. This would be good for ANet ($$$) and good for players that prefer to solo and probably have little to no noticeable impact on the rest of the GW community or PUGing, in my opinion.

I do not think offering such an option for sale would hurt PUGing nearly as much (or at all, really) as it might if it were just handed out to all players in an upcoming patch or something, since the market would likely restrict the feature to people who are already not PUGing or hardly ever PUGing.

Polls are nice, but I say let players vote with their cash on whether this would be a worthwhile feature or not.

creelie · Sep 11, 2008, 09:49 PM // 21:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by trankle

You do understand that real players are more powerful than heroes, don't you?

Guildies > Heroes > Henchies > PUGlies.

Guildies are human players at their best, and PUGlies are human players at their worst. AI falls between the 2 extremes.

A lot of people play mostly with AI most of the time, including myself - AI is infinitely preferable to the horrors of a PUG. A guild group is the best and most fun, but sometimes I can't get a group together, or I don't want to waste a guildie's time while I do something really boring. So I fill up my party with patient, reliable AI and go about my business, maybe chatting to people at the same time.

7 heroes is definitely a lot more powerful than 3 heroes and 4 henchies. It would make playing with full AI teams that much easier, it's true. But full AI teams will never come close to accomplishing what 8 skilled humans can accomplish. And it would give the player that much more control and customization, and on what planet is that a bad thing?

Lishy · Sep 11, 2008, 09:54 PM // 21:54

I am being patient, but seriously ANET... What the heck is taking you so long to implement this? Let alone, giving reasoning why we don't have 7 heroes. Removing the hero limit would DEFINITELY be much easier than the MOX quests, which were fun but retarded because you cannot redo them.

Amy Awien · Sep 11, 2008, 09:59 PM // 21:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

heaven forbid having a positive enjoyable experience while playing a game.

like ursan?

Quite the opposite, I am not playing the game for the final chest in lower dunguon, or the shortest completion time. Players pursuing their own ambitions at the expense of everything else are one factor that made PuGs unappealing, long before Nightfall arrived.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

... If all the people that only play H/H left the game it'd do nothing to the game anyway other than make ecto go up. ...

They wouldn't have bought Nightfall and EotN and that would have made a serious dent in ANet's incentive to keep the servers online.

Boogz · Sep 11, 2008, 10:29 PM // 22:29

7heroes will never be implemented, just give up.There's no heroes on prophecies or factions, henchmen would have to be removed, it would discourage to play with other players (read: not a full-human PUG, 2 players + 6 heroes)

JDRyder · Sep 11, 2008, 11:02 PM // 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

Jesus get a clue before talking, if the game had remained the same as at release it would be Prophesies only and people would have LEFT.

there a ton of other arguments posted previously but hey if you cant be bothered to read and all you want is people to play your way and with you....well, prepared to be disappointed.

if you cant be bothered to go over the other post, then stop posting, all over this has already been gone over

Quote:

Originally Posted by eximiis

What about 8 human with pve skills, and Human brain ?? would that be better than 7 heroes ??

Imagine all the builds a 8 human could do !!.

We don't need 7 heroes because the game is too hard !! it's because pugs are bad and guildies are offline and we want to test out some builds. see the synergy betwen them, or just for the fun of playing with 2 mesmer in pve.

Can you be more inbalance 6 echo/CoP ?? come on, don't talk of 7 heroes being overpower !!

read a few pages back we already went over pve skills and from what i hear CoP is getting nerfed soon

Quote:

Originally Posted by trankle

You do understand that real players are more powerful than heroes, don't you? Heroes are arguably better than humans in two instances that I can think of: minion targeting and interruption timing. On the other hand, a decent player can perform better than a hero in almost every other aspect of the game: positioning, target selection, using skill combos, intelligent interrupting, avoiding AoE, kiting, not single-mindedly chasing kiters, etc. A team of real players has more power potential than a seven hero group does. Add PvE skills to the mix, and I can't believe people are able to keep a straight face while claiming seven heroes would make the game too easy. Seriously.

have you seen discord? Ive taken that in to some HM areas in EoTN and have just rolled every thing with little to no healing needed. Your not always going to be able to get the professions/builds you want for VQs etc in real player party's, with heros you have 2 or 3 of each all ready to play w/o build you want.

Quote:

Originally Posted by trankle

Well, it's only bad if you don't want to answer it.

If you are claiming that players should play with friends or guildies, or failing that, PUG's, but then you say you sometimes play H/H, then I'm wondering what could lead you to make that decision.

I have a couple guesses:

1. You are playing at a time when guildies/friends are not available/willing to join you in your chosen task, and you cannot find a PUG. If this is the case, you would be admitting that "play with other people" doesn't always work as an argument.

2. You are sometimes in a mood to play alone, or to do a task/quest that you feel doesn't warrant the process of grouping with real people. So you choose to help kill the game instead of playing with real players.

3. You do not actually play in full H/H parties, but wanted to claim you do in order to be able to speak with authority about them.

Since I only have guesses, I thought I'd ask. Care to answer?

or maybe sometimes i know i have to go afk soon/working and dont want to wast peoples time if i have to go before the mission is done?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

They wouldn't have bought Nightfall and EotN and that would have made a serious dent in ANet's incentive to keep the servers online.

what? People would have got NF and EoTN for the same reasons i did, the new skills and new content/missions. Plus didnt they Say GW2 about when NF came out? I cant remember but i know its been some time, I dont think they'd say they were coming out with GW2 if they were low on cash.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmr819

As I asked earlier in this thread, if the ability to use 7 heroes was an option obtainable via purchase, what would be the effect?

more i think about it the more i like this idea, cause it gives Anet more money to make GW2 better.

DreamWind · Sep 11, 2008, 11:03 PM // 23:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by R.Shayne

The lack of logic is amazing. PuGs are dead and PuGs are what killed them, not heroes. I had stopped joining pugs before Sorrow’s Furnace was released.

The lack of you completely not responding to my point is amazing. Since when does the majority say what is good for the game?

And PuGs didn't kill PuGs. The ever widening PvE world killed PuGs because the community is more spread out. Heroes just compounded the problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by R.Shayne

If you don’t think full hero parties are needed then go to Urgoz and try to get a PuG team together, pack a lunch. Remember only real players, no heroes and no guild or alliance members. If you succeed in getting a PuG together then see how far you get.

I fail to see why I would be restricted to PuGs. This game is called Guild Wars for a reason...

But this is besides the point. I said earlier I could care less if they implemented 11 heroes. I'm just saying some of the arguments given here FOR heroes are terrible. Come up with something better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

heaven forbid having a positive enjoyable experience while playing a game.

I don't mind people having positive experiences...unless of course it is bad for the game or ruins other people's positive experiences. Do you know how many changes have been made to this game over the years that have made it less enjoyable for many players?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

Jesus get a clue before talking, if the game had remained the same as at release it would be Prophesies only and people would have LEFT.

If the game had remained the same as at release, most of the people I know would NOT have left. The additions are what made them leave. Ever think of that?

Inner Salbat · Sep 12, 2008, 01:02 AM // 01:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

They wouldn't have bought Nightfall and EotN and that would have made a serious dent in ANet's incentive to keep the servers online.

I would have because I like content I like playing it all too so that I don't feel like I've been ripped off the 320NZD+ it cost for all 4 games plus an additional 2 for the wife to play, but without heros I would not be playing the game at all anymore.

Off Topic Forum Education

For those sick of idiot posts I present to you the [IGNORE] option.

1. Click on the menu item [User CP] (User Control Panel) in the upper left of the webpage.

2. In the Miscellaneous section click on -> Buddy / Ignore Lists

3. On the next page you'll see 2 columns of boxes 1 is for Buddy the other is Ignore, type the name of the person you wish to ignore into the top most box on the right, example : JDRyder

4. Before you leave the page Click Update Ignore List.

5. Congratulate yourself that you don't have to listen to trolls.

zwei2stein · Sep 12, 2008, 06:14 AM // 06:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boogz

There's no heroes on prophecies or factions

Why is that problem?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boogz

, henchmen would have to be removed,

Why?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boogz

it would discourage to play with other players (read: not a full-human PUG, 2 players + 6 heroes)

Just like 2 players + 6 heroes discourage playing 3 players + 5 heroes? you Still need other players to form full paraway or discordway anyway.

Sleeper Service · Sep 12, 2008, 06:58 AM // 06:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

The lack of you completely not responding to my point is amazing. Since when does the majority say what is good for the game?

And PuGs didn't kill PuGs. The ever widening PvE world killed PuGs because the community is more spread out. Heroes just compounded the problem.

I fail to see why I would be restricted to PuGs. This game is called Guild Wars for a reason...

But this is besides the point. I said earlier I could care less if they implemented 11 heroes. I'm just saying some of the arguments given here FOR heroes are terrible. Come up with something better.

I don't mind people having positive experiences...unless of course it is bad for the game or ruins other people's positive experiences. Do you know how many changes have been made to this game over the years that have made it less enjoyable for many players?

If the game had remained the same as at release, most of the people I know would NOT have left. The additions are what made them leave. Ever think of that?

you admit that the size increase of the gameworld lead to the spreading out of the player population (less players per outpost) and yet cant see the fact that heroes are the ONE thing that enables people to enjoy the game by counteracting that?

and...wait are you not one of the usual whining crew that complains about "broken" pvp and the fact that "we have nothing left to do"? THATs the people that leave you know.

Ursan was not the problem, people being rewarded for repeatedly doing the same actions over and over is the problem.

Ursan just made it stupidly easy to do that.

Tyla · Sep 12, 2008, 07:41 AM // 07:41

^

Ursan was just a different problem than grind. Ursan went against this game's design in alot of ways.

/Off-topic.

Shasgaliel · Sep 12, 2008, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by eximiis

I have read this thread. the same arguments are post over and over because they are true. If ppl already have a guild then play with your guilds and don't pug. experience with pugs are bad.

And NO 7 heroes will NOT REDUCE the possibility of PUGS. the possibility are already kill !!!!

It's like shooting on a dead body. He's already dead so he won't die more !

So please read it again. Caps does not make anything more true mostly if there is no argument behind them. 7 heroes will reduce possibility og pugging because several people will cease to do it because:

1. They could not do missions/vq with 3 heroes so they Pug. If they can do with 7 they will not Pug thus reducing the pugging possibility - do not tell me there are no such people. Some of them posted in this thread.

2. People with high titles such as Norn or lb will prefer heroes over players with lower title ranks - heroes benefit from players titles. Now they have still incentive to replace henchmen with players this incentive might not me true for heroes. This group of players is not empty as well.

3. Some players just cannot stand henchmen, they can just flagged as one group, their skills cannot be changed etc. So they PUG. with 7 heroes more control so no PUG anymore.

4. Some of the new players might try to level up all their heroes. With having more them accessible at the same time they will have less incentive to team up.

Since those 4 groups will disappear from pugging group, pugging will diminish even more since people who had not many problems with pugging now will find it harder and more time consuming so they will switch to heroes or leave the game thus reducing pugging even more for others. You can argue it is happening now but there is still flow of new players there so it is not as bad now as it seems for people who do not pug and they pretend to know everything about pugs...

Do not give me arguments about people not pugging regarding 7 heroes. They did not pug so far so they will not pug with 7 heroes around. They do not influence pugging group anymore and they will not - so they are just irrelevant, What matters are the groups mentioned above.

Pugs are not dead. I Pugged seven missions in Prophecies yesterday just for fun and guess what, all were done with bonus....

Inner Salbat · Sep 12, 2008, 08:35 AM // 08:35

Finally some good arguments to debate congratulations amazing what happens when you hit the ignore button and filter out the troll(s).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasgaliel

1. They could not do missions/vq with 3 heroes so they Pug. If they can do with 7 they will not Pug thus reducing the pugging possibility - do not tell me there are no such people. Some of them posted in this thread.

Missions I can understand being feasible in (normal mode) but hard mode? granted this is one thing I've not completed entirely, however what I've done of it includes Prophecies & Factions, so far the only mission I remotely PuGed was 1 mission in factions and that was 2/6 heros, there are such people but you need to take into account also time zones of which people play, because what might seam a bounty of rich populated areas to one person, when someone else gets on from another time zone it's a barren waste land, this could be why some are finding it hard to find good PuGs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasgaliel

2. People with high titles such as Norn or lb will prefer heroes over players with lower title ranks - heroes benefit from players titles. Now they have still incentive to replace henchmen with players this incentive might not me true for heroes. This group of players is not empty as well.

I may have misunderstood you here but how is this any different from player rank discrimination in general?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasgaliel

3. Some players just cannot stand henchmen, they can just flagged as one group, their skills cannot be changed etc. So they PUG. with 7 heroes more control so no PUG anymore.

Essentially true however if they are so quick to give up there PuG'ing, the question then is were they enjoying it? too give something up like that quickly would mean to me they was doing it because they have to not because they want too, which means they where not having fun just putting up with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasgaliel

4. Some of the new players might try to level up all their heroes. With having more them accessible at the same time they will have less incentive to team up.

Hero's can only take you so far before you end up with a wall in your face, and you've no choice but to find people to play with because Hero's will never match the AI of a human in GW ever, maybe that is a plus for the game because once they've reached that point they will know a lot more about how the classes synergies with each other as an entire team, and they might be more willing to listen to others about there build when they do PuG.

-- Again well done even if we don't agree at least you brought something to the table worthy of discussion.

Amy Awien · Sep 12, 2008, 10:40 AM // 10:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

what? People would have got NF and EoTN for the same reasons i did, the new skills and new content/missions.

The people that prefer H/H would not have bought them if they couldn't have played these missions with H/H. Assuming that this is probably a large portion of the players - if it isn't there's no reason to blame PuG-fail on H/H - and it would have made a considerable impact if these players had not bought the sequel(s) and expansion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

I would have because I like content I like playing it all too so that I don't feel like I've been ripped off the 320NZD+ it cost for all 4 games plus an additional 2 for the wife to play, but without heros I would not be playing the game at all anymore.

Would have bought and played them without the ability to play them through with H/H?

I have no argument about the content, it's pretty good and I am especially fond of EotN and it's relation to (pre-searing) prophecies. But I would not have bought them if I'd be required to play them with PuGs.

Inner Salbat · Sep 12, 2008, 11:08 AM // 11:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Would have bought and played them without the ability to play them through with H/H?

Do you mean that the content couldn't be played with H/H even if they existed? if so that's kind of a hard question I'd have to say no because I would have thought at the time what if this game isn't a success and I'm the only one of very few people playing what then? I would be wasting my money and time buying content I will never see or play, it's borderline that now which is why I'm in favor of 7/11 heros.

If the areas where packed with people LFG for;
Vanquishing <insert area>
Mission (Hard Mode) <insert area> (all hard mode missions not just a rare few)
Dungeon <insert area> (normal and hard mode) (all hard mode dungeons not just a rare few)

If players could commit the time to complete UW/FoW/Urgoz/Deep/DoA any elite area then.. and only then would by sitting on the fence in regards to 7/11 heros, because there is an acceptable amount of chance to find real people to do it with.

Now I could go on the forums or go in game and find a new guild but because of reasons already stated but additionally it's one thing to play with people you've meet in game that don't visit forums, another to play with people who do know about forums and might do or say anything publicly about your play style which is something I'd rather void too.

JDRyder · Sep 12, 2008, 11:23 AM // 11:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

The people that prefer H/H would not have bought them if they couldn't have played these missions with H/H. Assuming that this is probably a large portion of the players - if it isn't there's no reason to blame PuG-fail on H/H - and it would have made a considerable impact if these players had not bought the sequel(s) and expansion.

yea they would lol.

Wildi · Sep 12, 2008, 11:58 AM // 11:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

If the game had remained the same as at release, most of the people I know would NOT have left. The additions are what made them leave. Ever think of that?

If the game had remained the same as at release, the game would be dead, sherlock

Quote:

Sleeper Service
Jesus get a clue before talking, if the game had remained the same as at release it would be Prophesies only and people would have LEFT.

what he said

Darkobra · Sep 12, 2008, 12:15 PM // 12:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

its guru and there's like 4-6 people posting here, how does that make something overwhelmingly disagreed with?

Did you read the poll? It will ruin the game just as a rune trader did. Or the new dye system and adding white dyes. Or any other "The sky is falling" crap we hear day in, day out.

bj91x · Sep 12, 2008, 12:18 PM // 12:18

Full heroes isn't just for solo players. There are many players who LOVE to play with people but would like full heroes for situations when they can't play with people.

I used to be one of those, but you can count me out now. Like I said, I love to play with people. Unfortunately, it's been getting harder and harder to play with people. A lot of times I try to find people to play with, all they are doing is grinding for titles. Back when I was still playing, full heroes would have kept me playing allowing me to be on "stand by" and have some kind of fun until somebody needed help. Unfortunately, I can rarely find people to play with now and the "stand by" time has been getting longer and longer. While full heroes would make playing alone more bearable, it still doesn't change the fact that playing alone is drop dead boring for me. I have no interest in being on "stand by" for hours playing alone with full heroes until I finally find somebody to play with. I'd rather do something else with my time.

JDRyder · Sep 12, 2008, 01:05 PM // 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkobra

Did you read the poll? It will ruin the game just as a rune trader did. Or the new dye system and adding white dyes. Or any other "The sky is falling" crap we hear day in, day out.

we have already gone over this read back a few pages, just cause a lot of people want it does not make it good for the game. Plus its till only 600 people that have voted anyway, theres a lot more than 600 people playing the game.